The three environmental shifts discussed in earlier posts in
this sequence—the ecological impacts of a sharply warmer and dryer climate, the
flooding of coastal regions due to rising sea levels, and the long-term
consequences of industrial America’s frankly brainless dumping of persistent
radiological and chemical poisons—all involve changes to the North American
continent that will endure straight through the deindustrial dark age ahead,
and will help shape the history of the successor cultures that will rise amid
our ruins. For millennia to come, the peoples of North America will have to
contend with drastically expanded deserts, coastlines that in some regions will
be many miles further inland than they are today, and the presence of dead
zones where nuclear or chemical wastes in the soil and water make human
settlement impossible.
All these factors mean, among other things, that
deindustrial North America will support many fewer people than it did in 1880
or so, before new agricultural technologies dependent on fossil fuels launched
the population boom that is peaking in our time. Now of course this also
implies that deindustrial North America will support many, many fewer people
than it does today. For obvious reasons, it’s worth talking about the processes
by which today’s seriously overpopulated North America will become the sparsely
populated continent of the coming dark age—but that’s going to involve a
confrontation with a certain kind of petrified irrelevancy all too common in
our time.
Every few weeks, the comments page of this blog fields
something insisting that I’m ignoring the role of overpopulation in the crisis
of our time, and demanding that I say or do something about that. In point of
fact, I’ve said quite a bit about overpopulation on this blog over the years,
dating back to this
post from 2007. What I’ve said about it, though, doesn’t follow
either one of the two officially sanctioned scripts into which discussions of
overpopulation are inevitably shoehorned in today’s industrial world; the
comments I get are thus basically objecting to the fact that I’m not toeing the
party line.
Like most cultural phenomena in today’s industrial world,
the scripts just mentioned hew closely to the faux-liberal and
faux-conservative narratives that dominate so much of contemporary thought. (I
insist on the prefix, as what passes for political thought these days has essentially
nothing to do with either liberalism or conservatism as these were understood
as little as a few decades ago.) The scripts differ along the usual lines: that
is to say, the faux-liberal script is well-meaning and ineffectual, while the
faux-conservative script is practicable and evil.
Thus the faux-liberal script insists that overpopulation is
a terrible problem, and we ought to do something about it, and the things we
should do about it are all things that don’t work, won’t work, and have been
being tried over and over again for decades without having the slightest effect
on the situation. The faux-conservative script insists that overpopulation is a
terrible problem, but only because it’s people of, ahem, the wrong skin color
who are overpopulating, ahem, our country: that is,
overpopulation means immigration, and immigration means let’s throw buckets of
gasoline onto the flames of ethnic conflict, so it can play its standard role
in ripping apart a dying civilization with even more verve than usual.
Overpopulation and immigration policy are not the same
thing; neither are depopulation and the mass migrations of whole peoples for
which German historians of the post-Roman dark ages coined the neat term
völkerwanderung,
which are the corresponding phenomena in eras of decline and fall. For that
reason, the faux-conservative side of the debate, along with the usually
unmentioned realities of immigration policy in today’s America and the far
greater and more troubling realities of mass migration and ethnogenesis that
will follow in due time, will be left for next week’s post. For now I want to
talk about overpopulation as such, and therefore about the faux-liberal side of
the debate and the stark realities of depopulation that are waiting in the
future.
All this needs to be put in its proper context. In 1962, the
year I was born, there were about three and a half billion human beings on this
planet. Today, there are more than seven billion of us. That staggering
increase in human numbers has played an immense and disastrous role in backing
today’s industrial world into the corner where it now finds itself. Among all
the forces driving us toward an ugly future, the raw pressure of human
overpopulation, with the huge and rising resource requirements it entails, is
among the most important.
That much is clear. What to do about it is something else
again. You’ll still hear people insisting that campaigns to convince people to
limit their reproduction voluntarily ought to do the trick, but such campaigns
have been ongoing since well before I was born, and human numbers more than
doubled anyway. It bears repeating that if a strategy has failed every time
it’s been tried, insisting that we ought to do it again isn’t a useful
suggestion. That applies not only to the campaigns just noted, but to all the
other proposals to slow or stop population growth that have been tried
repeatedly and failed just as repeatedly over the decades just past.
These days, a great deal of the hopeful talk around the subject
of limits to overpopulation has refocused on what’s called the demographic
transition: the process, visible in the population history of most of today’s
industrial nations, whereby people start voluntarily reducing their
reproduction when their income and access to resources rise above a certain
level. It’s a real effect, though its causes are far from clear. The problem
here is simply that the resource base that would make it possible for enough of
the world’s population to have the income and access to resources necessary to
trigger a worldwide demographic transition simply don’t exist.
As fossil fuels and a galaxy of other nonrenewable resources
slide down the slope of depletion at varying rates, for that matter, it’s
becoming increasingly hard for people in the industrial nations to maintain
their familiar standards of living. It may be worth noting that this hasn’t
caused a sudden upward spike in population growth in those countries where
downward mobility has become most visible. The demographic transition, in other
words, doesn’t work in reverse, and this points to a crucial fact that hasn’t
necessarily been given the weight it deserves in conversations about
overpopulation.
The vast surge in human numbers that dominates the
demographic history of modern times is wholly a phenomenon of the industrial
age. Other historical periods have seen modest population increases, but
nothing on the same scale, and those have reversed themselves promptly when
ecological limits came into play. Whatever the specific factors and forces that
drove the population boom, then, it’s a pretty safe bet that the underlying
cause was the one factor present in industrial civilization that hasn’t played
a significant role in any other human society: the exploitation of vast
quantities of extrasomatic energy—that is, energy that doesn’t come into play
by means of human or animal muscle. Place the curve of increasing energy per
capita worldwide next to the curve of human population worldwide, and the two
move very nearly in lockstep: thus it’s fair to say that human beings, like
yeast, respond to increased access to energy with increased reproduction.
Does that mean that we’re going to have to deal with soaring
population worldwide for the foreseeable future? No, and hard planetary limits
to resource extraction are the reasons why. Without the huge energy subsidy to
agriculture contributed by fossil fuels, producing enough food to support seven
billion people won’t be possible. We saw a preview of the consequences in 2008 and
2009, when the spike in petroleum prices caused a corresponding spike in food
prices and a great many people around the world found themselves scrambling to
get enough to eat on any terms at all. The riots and revolutions that followed
grabbed the headlines, but another shift that happened around the same time
deserves more attention: birth rates in many Third World countries decreased
noticeably, and have continued to trend downward since then.
The same phenomenon can be seen elsewhere. Since the collapse
of the Soviet Union, most of the formerly Soviet republics have seen steep
declines in rates of live birth, life expectancy, and most other measures of
public health, while death rates have climbed well above birth rates and stayed
there. For that matter, since 2008, birth rates in the United States have
dropped even further below the rate of replacement than they were before that
time; immigration is the only reason the population of the United States
doesn’t register declines year after year.
This is the wave of the future. As fossil fuel and other resources continue
to deplete, and economies dependent on those resources become less and less
able to provide people with the necessities of life, the population boom will
turn into a population bust. The base scenario in 1972’s The Limits to
Growth, still the most accurate (and thus inevitably the most
vilified) model of the future into which we’re stumbling blindly just now, put
the peak of global population somewhere around 2030: that is, sixteen years
from now. Recent declines in birth rates in areas that were once hotbeds of
population growth, such as Latin America and the Middle East, can be seen as
the leveling off that always occurs in a population curve before decline sets
in.
That decline is likely to go very far indeed. That’s partly
a matter of straightforward logic: since global population has been
artificially inflated by pouring extrasomatic energy into boosting the food
supply and providing other necessary resources to human beings, the exhaustion
of economically extractable reserves of the fossil fuels that made that process
possible will knock the props out from under global population figures. Still,
historical parallels also have quite a bit to offer here: extreme depopulation is
a common feature of the decline and fall of civilizations, with up to 95%
population loss over the one to three centuries that the fall of a civilization
usually takes.
Suggest that to people nowadays and, once you get past the
usual reactions of denial and disbelief, the standard assumption is that
population declines so severe could only happen if there were catastrophes on a
truly gargantuan scale. That’s an easy assumption to make, but it doesn’t
happen to be true. Just as it didn’t take vast public orgies of copulation and
childbirth to double the planet’s population over the last half-century, it
wouldn’t take equivalent exercises in mass death to halve the planet’s
population over the same time frame. The ordinary processes of demography can
do the trick all by themselves.
Let’s explore that by way of a thought experiment. Between
family, friends, coworkers, and the others that you meet in the course of your
daily activities, you probably know something close to a hundred people. Every
so often, in the ordinary course of events, one of them dies—depending on the
age and social status of the people you know, that might happen once a year,
once every two years, or what have you. Take a moment to recall the most recent
death in your social circle, and the one before that, to help put the rest of
the thought experiment in context.
Now imagine that from this day onward, among the hundred
people you know, one additional person—one person more than you would otherwise
expect to die—dies every year, while the rate of birth remains the same as it
is now. Imagine that modest increase in the death rate affecting the people you
know. One year, an elderly relative of yours doesn’t wake up one morning; the
next, a barista at the place where you get coffee on the way to work dies of
cancer; the year after that, a coworker’s child comes down with an infection
the doctors can’t treat, and so on. A
noticeable shift? Granted, but it’s not Armageddon; you attend a few more funerals
than you’re used to, make friends with the new barista, and go about your life
until one of those additional deaths is yours.
Now take that process and extrapolate it out. (Those of my
readers who have the necessary math skills should take the time to crunch the
numbers themselves.) Over the course of three centuries, an increase in the
crude death rate of one per cent per annum, given an unchanged birth rate, is
sufficient to reduce a population to five per cent of its original level. Vast
catastrophes need not apply; of the traditional four horsemen, War, Famine, and
Pestilence can sit around drinking beer and playing poker. The fourth horseman,
in the shape of a modest change in crude death rates, can do the job all by
himself.
Now imagine the same scenario, except that there are two additional
deaths each year in your social circle, rather than one. That would be considerably more noticeable,
but it still doesn’t look like the end of the world—at least until you do the
math. An increase in the crude death rate of two per cent per annum, given an
unchanged birth rate, is enough to reduce a population to five per cent of its
original level within a single century. In global terms, if world population
peaks around 8 billion in 2030, a decline on that scale would leave four
hundred million people on the planet by 2130.
In the real world, of course, things are not as simple or
smooth as they are in the thought experiment just offered. Birth rates are
subject to complex pressures and vary up and down depending on the specific
pressures a population faces, and even small increases in infant and child
mortality have a disproportionate effect by removing potential breeding pairs
from the population before they can reproduce. Meanwhile, population declines
are rarely anything like so even as the thought
experiment suggests; those other three horsemen, in particular, tend to get
bored of their poker game at intervals and go riding out to give the guy with
the scythe some help with the harvest. War, famine, and pestilence are common
events in the decline and fall of a civilization, and the twilight of the
industrial world is likely to get its fair share of them.
Thus it probably won’t be a matter of two more deaths a
year, every year. Instead, one year, war breaks out, most of the young men in
town get drafted, and half of them come back in body bags. Another year, after a string of bad harvests,
the flu comes through, and a lot of people who would have shaken it off under
better conditions are just that little bit too malnourished to survive. Yet another year, a virus shaken out of its
tropical home by climate change and ecosystem disruption goes through town, and
fifteen per cent of the population dies in eight ghastly months. That’s the way
population declines happen in history.
In the twilight years of the Roman world, for example, a
steady demographic contraction was overlaid by civil wars, barbarian invasions,
economic crises, famines, and epidemics; the total population decline varied
significantly from one region to another, but even the relatively stable parts
of the Eastern Empire seem to have had around a 50% loss of population, while
some areas of the Western Empire suffered far more drastic losses; Britain in
particular was transformed from a rich, populous, and largely urbanized province
to a land of silent urban ruins and small, scattered villages of subsistence
farmers where even so simple a technology as wheel-thrown pottery became a lost
art.
The classic lowland Maya are another good example along the
same lines. Hammered by climate change
and topsoil loss, the Maya heartland went through a rolling collapse a century
and a half in length that ended with population levels maybe five per cent of
what they’d been at the start of the Terminal Classic period, and most of the
great Maya cities became empty ruins rapidly covered by the encroaching jungle.
Those of my readers who have seen pictures of tropical foliage burying the
pyramids of Tikal and Copan might want to imagine scenes of the same kind in
the ruins of Atlanta and Austin a few centuries from now. That’s the kind of
thing that happens when an urbanized society suffers severe population loss
during the decline and fall of a civilization.
That, in turn, is what has to be factored into any realistic
forecast of dark age America: there will be many, many fewer people inhabiting
North America a few centuries from now than there are today. Between the depletion of the fossil fuel
resources necessary to maintain today’s hugely inflated numbers and the
degradation of North America’s human carrying capacity by climate change, sea
level rise, and persistent radiological and chemical pollution, the continent
simply won’t be able to support that many people. The current total is about
470 million—35 million in Canada, 314 million in the US, and 121 million in
Mexico, according to the latest figures I was able to find—and something close
to five per cent of that—say, 20 to 25 million—might be a reasonable midrange
estimate for the human population of the North American continent when the
population implosion finally bottoms out a few centuries from now.
Now of course those 20 to 25 million people won’t be
scattered evenly across the continent. There will be very large regions—for
example, the nearly lifeless, sun-blasted wastelands that climate change will
make of the southern Great Plains and the Sonoran desert—where human settlement
will be as sparse as it is today in the bleakest parts of the Sahara or the
Rub’al Khali of central Arabia. There will be other areas—for example, the Great
Lakes region and the southern half of Mexico’s great central valley—where
population will be relatively dense by Dark Age standards, and towns of modest
size may even thrive if they happen to be in defensible locations.
The nomadic herding folk of the midwestern prairies, the
villages of the Gulf Coast jungles, and the other human ecologies that will
spring up in the varying ecosystems of deindustrial North America will all
gradually settle into a more or less stable population level, at which births and
deaths balance each other and the consumption of resources stays at or below
sustainable levels of production. That’s what happens in human societies that
don’t have the dubious advantage of a torrent of nonrenewable energy reserves
to distract them temporarily from the hard necessities of survival.
It’s getting to that level that’s going to be a bear. The
mechanisms of population contraction are simple enough, and as suggested above,
they can have a dramatic impact on historical time scales without cataclysmic
impact on the scale of individual lives. No, the difficult part of population
contraction is its impact on economic patterns geared to continuous population
growth. That’s part of a more general pattern, of course—the brutal impact of
the end of growth on an economy that depends on growth to function at all—which
has been discussed on this blog several times already, and will require close
study in the present sequence of posts.
That examination will begin after we’ve considered the second half of the demography of dark age America: the role of mass migration and ethnogenesis in the birth of the cultures that will emerge on this continent when industrial civilization is a fading memory. That very challenging discussion will occupy next week’s post.
216 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 216 of 216This was in the Manchester Guardian. I believe a discussion of the research was posted before. Just thought it was interesting that it was in a mainsteam publication.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/02/limits-to-growth-was-right-new-research-shows-were-nearing-collapse
Some discussion of population.
(Deborah Bender)
@Sean Strange--You wrote, "Only in our affluent and decadent modern societies have people gotten the strange, counter-evolutionary idea that not having children is a reasonable choice."
Historically false statement. Several early varieties of Christianity valorized virginity and celibacy. Some married couples who converted to Christianity made vows not to have sex with each other (or anyone else) any more. Some men castrated themselves. Legends of early Christian martyrs, whom Roman Catholics at least are taught to admire, include young women who chose a martyr's death over marriage and continuation of their family line.
In some branches of Christianity, it's regarded as controversial to think that Jesus had blood brothers and sisters and a sex life of his own. Paul of Tarsus famously said "It is better to marry than to burn," meaning, if you can't control your lust, then marry. Not the first choice; that would be to control your lust.
One thing that made early Christianity attractive to women was that it said it was not only okay but best for an ordinary woman never to have sex. If she took the option of holy.virginity, she would be respected and had a better chance of living to old age instead of dying in childbirth or being worn out and toothless at the age of forty.
onething said...
Wadulisi, I get poison ivy all the time, and next spring I'm going to try eating a leaf, and will be trying the urine treatment as well.
I wouldn't eat it but I would look for a bee keeper that has some hives IN or near a poison ivy/poison oak patch. I can't recall where I saw it, perhaps here but since the bees gather pollen and nectar from so many different places and plants the dose of urshiol (sp?)(not sure that's how its spelled but its the oil on the leaves), by eating the honey its in such a small dose that it gradually inoculates you against the effects of the oil! I'm really leery of violent reactions by your body's immune systems and exposing your throat to poison ivy leaves the reaction could be extreme! Please reconsider eating a leaf.
Wadulisi
hi everybody,
maybe off-topic, but the Western USA's drought is making the headlines in LeMonde.fr, one of our biggest newspapers.
www.lemonde.fr
and a really scary visual :
http://www.lemonde.fr/planete/visuel/2014/09/02/dans-l-ouest-americain-les-stigmates-d-une-secheresse-historique_4479862_3244.html
Not living in the USA, I had no idea things were this bad !
Raymond,
I, too, find it disconcerting and even a bit silly when people say things like "I don't have children but I have dogs" or "My cats are my children" but at the same time your approach of comparing animals to people and finding them wanting makes for a smaller existence.
Verbal communication is so easy, it's almost cheating! Earlier this spring we decided to buy some meat chickens, and were given cheaply a bunch of so-called white rock mostly rooster chicks, which I'm pretty sure are really white leghorns. They have grown slowly and the meat is tough. Just as we got down to the last two roosters and a hen, why she began to lay eggs. This impressed my husband greatly, who vehemently denies that her eggs are small, and he decided that the final couple will be allowed to live, and therefore we might as well give them free range. We do have two dogs. Now we are letting them out in the afternoons, earlier and earlier, and he sits in a chair for hours near their area and takes the dogs to teach them they mustn't bother them, and he is greatly entertained by watching this couple explore their new freedom and interact. The rooster communicates to his precious hen constantly, watches over her, suggests when it is time to come in for the night, where he has found food, and so on. He is like a shepherd.
I think people are making a category error when they compare animal intelligence so miserably against the human. Animals are very intelligent, but they are specialists, whereas humans are generalists. Compared to them we are like gods, yes, able to explore and appreciate the whole cosmos, but a fox is very sharp and good at being a fox, and a crow is very smart as a crow.
Dear JMG, interesting this week reading the comments about being peak oil aware and having children. I became p.o. aware in 2003 when my daughter was one year old and my son was conceived the same vacation I was reading Matt Savier's Life After the Oil Crash.
Anyway, it has been scary having children knowing what I know about their not so bright future. I don't share much of it with them, and I often cringe when my son sees a new Camaro that he thinks he'll be driving some day, or my daughter wants the newest digital gadget. Knowing what I know now about the future, I probably would choose not to have kids.
I can't worry about that now, but instead focus on getting out of California in the near future, and if they and my wife don't want to come with me, at least I'll have a safer, more livable place for them to come to when the time comes.
A state heading into the forth year of drought and 30 million people is ripe for problems. Not to mention my home town of Napa just having a 6.0 earthquake and the fault is only miles from my house (house did ok but lots of stuff broken). I do not want to see what a 7 or higher would do.
Many water mains busted in the earthquake and it was only because of gas powered machines that they got fixed in a few days. Without the fuel, it would have taken them weeks or months to fix, and people can't make it that long without water not to mention the people trying to dig them up to repair. Not a good scenario. Imagine the Bay Area's Hayward Fault, that has a 30% chance of having a 7.0 or higher in next 30 years, letting loose. This fault runs all along the east side of the bay parallel with the San Andreas . Looks like one of the steep and local population drops you were talking about.
Carl
Redneck Girl, It works for jellyfish stings too, as well as heating your wetsuit.Who'd a thunk it. One even sees bumper stickers that read "happiness is peeing in your wetsuit"
cheers, steve
A few points have occured to me on this series of posts, and the 263comments. Someone commented that nomad overlords were resposible for the ecological damaging farming practices that destroyed North Africa, and other similar areaas. Our current very and ultra rich that control the economy (effectivly, out overlords) are also a nomadic group, jetting to whatever locale is most attractive to them at the moment. Second, on causes of possible increases in the death rate, I see two major issues. Recently, the city near me was having much hand waving that ambulance service had degraded from an average of 7 minuites, to over 11 (or approximatly so). These kinds of response times require a lot of fully stocked ambulances, with the required paramedics, driving on well maintained streets, delivering the paitents to properly operating hospitals. Take any of those elements away, and the number of people who then die between onset of symptoms or accident, and medical help, will jump dramatically. The other big thing to increase the world wide death rate is when industrial (oil fueled) agriculture shuts down, for a varity of reasons, and food is not exported around the world in bulk, those third world counties with degraded soil will not be able to feed their population, let alone in years of bad harvests.
@ onething
"but a fox is very sharp and good at being a fox, and a crow is very smart as a crow. "
And a sheep is just about smart enough to hunt and catch grass, if it happens to be standing in a pasture made of grass.
That's domestication for you...
@Onething
I am sorry if I came out as non appreciating animal life in its own terms. The point I was trying to make was that it is the attitude of pet owners, and only those who treat their animals as children, which results in a frustrating experience.
Domestic animals are without doubt part of the "human ecology" *(for lack of a better term), but in their form of pets it can be challenging to let them express their unique character and potentials.
There are many good and proper reasons to keep animals at home, and not all of them have to be utilitarian (my grandmother used to keep around half-a-dozen of canaries, and they earned their modest keep by offering their beautiful songs). I just don't happen to think that satisfying unconscious maternal/paternal feelings to take care of some cute little thing is a valid one.
From an internal point of view, a pet is never going to fulfill the same satisfaction as having a child, for the reasons expressed in my previous comment. I don't think it is healthy for the pet either, because it must be confusing to not be given the limits they have evolved over many generations to thrive on.
From an external point of view -and one related to this week post - there is a phantom population besides the 7+ billion humans in this world: it is that of their pets. Resource wise, a significant amount is expended on pet's behalf by their owners. I have never done the research, but I am pretty sure that the pet of a typical family in the 90-percentile of income has a higher carbon footprint than the average child in the 10-percentile... and maybe a longer lifespan too.
And still, there are so many people that are happy to extend to their pets status as full members of the family. I guess humans are hardwired to find meaning in all aspects of life.
Sean Strange:
Difficult to say. It's all about how you interpret things.
The way I look at it, limits to growth is global. Nobody escapes the fallout, no single group takes over.
It's not just fecundity, it's survival. The Mexicans and Africans and Arabs can have all the kids they want. Again, we'll see how well they do once international finance and trade collapses.
And yes, it's self-evident to say that if you have don't have kids, your personal genetic line ends. Although, your genes may continue on if your close relatives have kids.
I personally think the noble thing to do, given all the information we have, is to limit reproduction. People can read all the Spengler they want, I have nothing but contempt for the thoughtless breeders.
wadulisi,
Don't worry about the leaf. I got the idea from some neighbors who say their daughter was advised by the local guys who maintain the clear passage around electric lines (this place turns into a temperate jungle in the summer) to eat a leaf each spring when they are new and shiny, and she does it every year and does not get poison ivy. Of course, it is possible she is one of the immune ones.
I myself got poison oak so bad when I was twelve that it covered me from head to toe, was down my throat and also in another sensitive area - I believe I got it during a camping trip when I went out at night to pee and used some leaves. It came on the next day.
At some point my Dad got some doctor to prescribe an extract of poison oak and I was to take 1 drop per day and increase it up to 10 drops.
I was so careful after a second full body bout of poison oak, that I never touched it for many years. But here in the temperate jungle it is not so easy. The vegetation is so prolific you can't always see it. It's everywhere and you can get it in your feet just from walking outside barefoot in a mowed field.
Since I've never again gotten so full blown a case, I am wondering if that stuff I took as a teenager at least damped down my response.
My husband is awaiting my response to the leaf as he is if anything even more allergic than me, and he gets it more often because he works outside. Perhaps it's because he's from Europe and had zero exposure, but the first time he got it we were truly worried he had leukemia, as his groins were swelled with walnuts in them for at least two months. It took a while for me to even connect the possibility that the two might be related, so I called the poison control center and asked if that were a possible reaction and they did not think so! I finally got hold of a heme-onc doc at work and asked him what he thought, and he said, "Of course it is." Whew! We were already looking into flying him home to Ukraine for medical treatment.
I don't eat all that much honey, but I buy local honey and I'm pretty sure it has little or no effect. For one thing, bees aren't eating any flowers on this plant, as they don't have any so far as I know.
And here's an odd thing. Just yesterday we were walking in the city and the boulevard was lined with Ginko Biloba trees, and they had fruit on them. My husband picked up a couple, and I bit into one. It was astringent like crazy, and my throat was burning a good while. So I googled it last night and to my surprise they said the Ginko fruits should be handled with gloves as they have the same chemical urushiol as poison oak and ivy. I think you only eat the nut inside. Anyway, it's been over 24 hours now and I have no reaction at all, nor does he.
Hi Raymond,
I wasn't going to comment again, but - no stress I think we all understood your point.
However, it should be noted that many baby boomers are now treating their own children as pets. Perhaps that may be the source of the confusion?
A few years back someone visited here and started calling the dogs "fur babies". Honestly, it really annoyed me, so I clapped my hands loudly and said: "Oi, you lot out, now!" and all of the dogs obediently toddled off outside. After that I turned to the visitor and said, "they're not children replacements, they're dogs". That killed that conversation and the visitors observation has not been repeated since.
Regards
Chris
Furthering Deborah Bender's point, at the height of the Middle Ages by some estimates as many as one in four adults was a professed celibate. This makes sense; the first son would inherit the farm, the second could perhaps be apprenticed to a tradesman in town, but for the rest Holy Orders was arguably a better option than the army or outlawry. We also have the more recent example of the Shakers, for whom universal celibacy is a requirement.
@ onething I'd join the chorus saying not to eat a leaf. Do like your husband and see what happens to someone that you know is susceptible. I know people eat local honey to help with allergies, but I haven't heard it having much to do with poison ivy - especially since they don't really flower enough to be relevant. The folk remedy that I'm familiar with is to drink goats milk from goats that browse in poison ivy. I can't vouch for it, but that's what I've heard.
There's one thing I think JMG misses (or purposely ignores — he misses very little) is that we are much, much further into overshoot than any other civilization in history.
When he cites "the one to three centuries that the fall of a civilization usually takes," does he realize that at no time in human history has every person had 200 energy slaves — slaves who are about to go on strike?
Gail Tverberg thinks financial collapse could trigger a very rapid energy descent. We have picked all the "low hanging fruit," and the new shale oil and tar sands that dilatantes say will bring happy days here again needs ~$120/barrel prices in order to produce. Such sources are currently like a strapless evening gown: no visible means of support. Quantitative easing printing presses are shovelling low-interest money into shale oil and tar sands because, well, "oil will always go up in price, right?"
Except we're seeing contagio right now. Brent dipped below $100 for the first time in six years.
The shale/sands folks don't have deep pockets. The majors have pulled out. The likes of Chesepeake Energy and Suncor can't survive long if their oxygen is cut off.
Production from shale or tar sands depends on a continuous flow of new money. Ask the Weimar Republic how that worked out for them.
On the other hand, it seems we have an example of how this could play out in the Former Soviet Union. Dmitry Orlov says you don't really notice population decline very much until you look through your high school year book, and realize that half the people in it, who should be comfortably middle-aged, sliding into retirement, are instead, dead.
I do agree with JMG that collapse will come with a whimper, not a bang. But it may be much quicker than many think.
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